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I’ve been seeing a lot of griping about Apple’s Software Update for Windows and it having Safari in it’s lists of updates even when Safari for Windows isn’t installed on that computer. (Yep Neil, I saw your Twitter response)
Here is my take on this for what it is worth…
The “Apple Software Update” program is a program that is installed when installing either of the three programs on the list in the above screen shot. iTunes, QuickTime, and/or Safari. It’s a convenience program to allow you to keep those programs up-to-date without having to go to Apple’s website every so often to make sure you have the latest. It’s written fairly similarly to Apple’s Macintosh “Software Update” program.
There has been a lot of griping about how Apple is trying to “pull a fast one” and sneak a copy of Safari onto Windows based computers by making it look like the user needs to update the program when in fact it’s not even installed on the system. (Ok, so most of the complaining has been by either the Mozilla group, or Twitter posts…)
- SlashDot:
Mozilla CEO Objects To Safari Auto Install - Twitter:
Molly Wood - Twitter:
Response to Molly’s tweet - Daring Fireball:
Apple Offering Safari 3.1 to Windows iTunes Users - Waffle:
Where By “Interesting”, I Mean “Annoying” - Paul Thurrott’s SuperSite for Windows:
Mozilla responds to Apple’s dubious use of Software Update to push Safari - Daring Fireball:
Paul Thurrott on the Safari for Windows Software Update Thing - Waffle:
The Sliding Scale of Right - Alivad.com:
Apple’s dirty Safari installer … - Brandon Live!:
Apple is the new Borg - rare pattern:
Apple’s in the wrong, but Safari really is the better browser - Cow’s Blog:
Apple Safari Backdoor Install ‘Wrong’ - on and on and on…
The complaints seem to be focusing on the fact that if Microsoft did this, they would get their butt’s in all kinds of hot water, yet Apple is getting a free ticket to do what they want.
Now, it’s very possible that this is Apple’s way of getting Safari onto Windows based systems with little effort. After all, if a Windows user has an iPod or iPhone, they will probably be running iTunes and will be running this software update program to make sure that iTunes is up-to-date. So basically, Apple is taking advantage of this fact to try to get Safari installed on as many Windows based systems as it can.
Is this evil? Eh, I can’t really say. Personally, I use Safari now more and more since Firefox seems to be getting slower and buggier by the day. I have tried other Windows based browsers like Opera and Netscape, but none are really as speedy as Safari is. So giving Windows users another choice to me seems like a nice thing. Just my opinion here.
Now, getting back to the topic at hand. I can’t speak for other platforms when it comes to their update software. I can speak to Microsoft and Windows Update. I still have a couple of Windows boxes laying around here running XP. There have been several times when Microsoft has decided to “update” my computer without my permission. I don’t run Windows Update in such a way that it is supposed to update my computer no matter what. I like to make sure the updates I am installing are ones I really need. Yet, I know of at least 2 times when my Windows box has been rebooted by a software update that happened without my telling it to update.
With Apple’s Software Update mechanism, I am given a list of programs that need to be updated, each with a checkbox in front so that I can tell the program that I don’t want to update a specific piece of software at that time. Further more, I can tell the program that I don’t ever want to see a specific update again, by using the Tools menu and selecting “Ignore Selected Updates”.
Now, I don’t see Safari in the list at all:
So, I really don’t understand why all the complaining. It’s easy enough to ignore software that you don’t want to install. It’s not hiding the fact that it’s going to install/update the software if you click on the “Install n items” button at the bottom. Plus, installing Safari doesn’t change your default browser, home page setting, browser search engine, etc… All perfectly benign.
I have seen install programs on Windows that sneak all kinds of junk on to your computer and don’t give you even the slightest option to not install it or even tell you that it is going to install it except in that nasty piece of text called the EULA.
So, calm down folks, it’s really not that bad and if you really don’t want it, ignore it or even better, remove Apple Software Update from even running on your Windows system and you will never have to worry about it again.
Update: (8:18pm) I just cleaned up the links to other sites talking about this topic and moved them off to a list.
Twitter
Jaiku
Pownce
March 22nd, 2008 at 5:59 pm
If it was unticked by default, or in a separate section saying “you don’t have this installed but we think you might like it” then I wouldn’t be so bothered. But then Apple has tried inflicting iTunes on Quicktime users for years so it’s probably not all that surprising.
Have you tried the betas of Firefox 3, by the way? They have massively improved performance on all platforms. According to their own statistics it now uses less memory than even Opera.
March 22nd, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Yes, I have been checking out the beta’s as they appear. Firefox is looking pretty good. It does seem quite speedy. Currently, the beta’s are just a little too unstable for my tastes. I like the popdown list that shows up when entering an address in the address bar and my favorite feature is the popdown section that appears after submitting a form with a password. I can wait to see if the site accepts my entry, if so, I can then tell Firefox to store the username/password. This is something that I think all browsers should start doing. I never remember which password I use on a site and this way I don’t have to tell the browser not to remember the first time, then logout and log back in so that I can tell the browser to remember.
I’m really looking forward to seeing Firefox 3 being released so that I can start using it more.
I have to admit though. I am finding Safari much easier to use now that I have Safari Stand, Saft and Safari AdBlock installed. They pretty much do the same things that I used to do with Firefox and when comparing Safari 3.1 with Firefox 2.x, Safari wins hands down as far as speed and ease of use.
The future is going to be quite interesting.
March 23rd, 2008 at 10:25 am
That Apple updater states in bold letters: “NEW SOFTWARE IS AVAILABLE FROM APPLE” Any user who is tricked by this must have an IQ way belowthe Mendoza line.
March 23rd, 2008 at 11:18 am
The thing about ‘Software Update’ on a Mac is that the program itself scans your drive for the Apple based applications you have. It then compares what versions you have with what updates are available, then recommends what programs you should update. If you don’t have Safari installed - it won’t offer you an update!
Therefore, for Apple to recommend Safari updates for PC users who don’t have the application seems kinda weird (read: borderline ‘evil’). But to be honest, Apple has done a lot of ‘Microsoftish’ things in the past, and I think it’s just the way big (and/or growing) companies work.
User beware!
March 23rd, 2008 at 3:30 pm
The complainers all ASSUME that PC Users are STUPID - when they are not.
Obviously, if they are using an Apple product in the first place, they must be brighter than average. After all, Mac users are better educated and brighter than the average PC user.
So to all the complainers: Quit thinking Apple’s PC users are stupid. They are not.
March 23rd, 2008 at 8:38 pm
A browser is one of the very few programs that a user should have more than one of since NO browser will render every webpage correctly. Safari is a nice fast FREE program that is a good addition to any computer. I really can’t understand why the Mozilla people are complaining. Once a Windows user tries Safari and realizes how much IE sucks they may just download Firefox to check it out.
March 24th, 2008 at 11:33 am
[...] other way around. Or maybe there’s no longer any difference. The Mac Switcher Blog wrote up a list of some of the places where people felt the need to vent their opinions about Apple’s Faux [...]
March 25th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
The only reason Mozilla is complaining, is because they don’t have an application like iTunes and Quicktime to whore their browser onto everyone with.
Apple programs for Windows– Aside from Safari 3.1, oddly enough– are awful. iTunes is bloated, my browsers seem to forget I even have Quicktime installed, I have 500 processes running on my machine at a time and my computer wants to whiter up and die. Now, since I’m a switcher, I’m completely free of all these problems and I’m absolutely loving iTunes, Quicktime and Safari. [Well, nightly Webkit builds to be more specific, but they essentially are Safari.]
Now, having said this- it doesn’t mean I disagree with Apple doing this. Think of it this way:
The average user doesn’t know that browsers out of Internet Explorer exist.
Trust me! I know from experience! Hell, tell a grade school teacher to download FireFox and you’ll get nothing more then a blank look in response. Safari? They’d most likely assume it’s an Edu-Tainment game for kids 8 and under or something.
Apple, unintentionally maybe, is informing people that there are other ways to browse the internet outside of what Microsoft is pushing on you with every Windows install. The average user is going to see Safari and want to check it out. I know that if I saw Safari in my update browser, I would gladly download it.
Don’t tell me that I’m making the average user look stupid, I’m stating what I’ve seen through past experiences.
The people who are whining and complaining are probably just bored in their basement eating Cheetos and looking for a reason to complain.
March 25th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Hey Dave!
In regards to remembering passwords for websites, just wanted to make sure you’ve heard of 1password. I rely on it and it lets me fill out username/password no matter which browser I’m in (including the browser in NetNewsWire). Essential for those of us who bop around among browsers.
March 25th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Hi Stephen! I was really surprised to find you on Twitter. I usually don’t find old friends at technology sites and services I use.
Yes, 1Password is one of the first programs I got when I switched to Mac. I had been using a program on Windows to encrypt credit card info and passwords. It didn’t help fill out forms, but it was good at protecting private info.
1Password does that and a bunch more. I love that I can get ahold of that private info from my iPhone, the web or my computers and not have to worry about that info getting into anyone else’s hands.
Thanks to websites like MacUpdate, Version Tracker, MacZOT and others, I keep up with all the software that I might want to use and get them usually at a nice discount. I have well over 700 freeware/shareware titles on my Mac now. I just love this computer. I really wonder how people that use Windows ever get by.
Case in point; I was helping my father get Microsoft Office installed on his Windows box. No matter what version of Office I installed, he would get some weird dialog box popup when running Word saying that it was: “Preparing Install” I have no idea why. When we started Excel, it didn’t do this at all. My guess is that he has some kind of weird virus on there, but I can’t be sure.
Mind you, the Mac Mini they have has it’s own set of problems. It’s not the speediest computer they could have, but it keeps my mother happy. It just needs a couple of Gig of RAM and it will probably run pretty good. I just need to get around to upgrading it sometime. I just don’t look forward to trying to get into that beast.
Anyway, glad to hear from you!
March 26th, 2008 at 10:58 am
Thank you for posting that. I didn’t know that I had the option to ignore it. It was easy enough to ignore the software I didn’t want to install…once I knew that the option existed and whether I could find it.
And I think that is what bothered me about it. I didn’t want Apple dealing with anything other than what software I had installed, and I didn’t know I had the option to make it permanently ignore. I thought that every single time iTunes asked me to update software, I would have to be careful to uncheck the box next to Safari, which I don’t even have installed.
I’m not part of the Mozilla project. I’m not worried about Firefox losing market share. I’m just someone who felt that this was yet another bad experience with using iTunes on a Windows machine. It already doesn’t react like most of my other apps and so feels wrong sometimes.
Unlike Sean, I don’t see these as a reason to switch to a Mac just so the experience will be cohesive, and I don’t have the option anyway since I use the Windows machine provided by the day job.
You can dismiss it as whining about nothing, but that doesn’t improve my experience with it at all. My Ubuntu and Debian systems at home never try to get me to install something on the sly, which is what this experience felt like, regardless if you think that it was completely above board.
You liking Safari has no bearing on whether or not it is “evil” for Apple to imply that Safari is part of the collection of software that needs updating when it isn’t even installed. Your opinion is that Apple is just being nice by offering another option to people? I can’t really see that as anything more than spin. Microsoft bundled IE on computers and it was accused of using its monopoly to unfairly push out Netscape, but Apple is just being nice by offering an alternative browser. It’s the same situation! The only difference is that Apple’s monopoly is in music hardware with software running on Windows rather than Windows itself.
Dave, that “Preparing Install” dialog is typical of the first time you run it. I have no idea why, but it isn’t likely that it is a virus.
March 26th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
OK, first off, the “Preparing Install” dialog only appears when running Word, not Excel. If it was part of Office, it should appear when either program is started. Both programs were installed to run off the hard drive so it’s not an install issue.
Now, posting the info on disabling an update felt necessary since no one in the blogosphere was mentioning that it’s possible. Plus, get the feeling that very few people know that Microsoft’s Windows Update, Apple’s Software Update for Mac OS X and Windows all have the ability to disable prompting items to be updated. It’s not entirely clear how to do this with Microsoft Windows Update, but it is possible.
As far as Apple sliding by from this issue. I really don’t think they are sliding by. They are getting a beating from computer journalists all over the place. Apple get it’s fair share of lawsuits and I suspect that this latest foible will inspire quite a few lawsuits including Mozilla.
I want to make it clear that I am no Mac Zealot. My history with computers covers well over 15 years of Windows and other computers. I try to look at all platforms with an open mind.
This is why the following post to this one: Hub-bub about Apple Software Update for Windows: Part 2, I take a second look at the issue and change some of my opinions.
I didn’t want to change this post since it might look like I was trying to hide something.
I guess the main point I was trying to push was that this issue is not really worth all the fervor that it’s creating in the blogging community. That’s all.